Thanks, we also agree, and intend to produce educational curriculum for kids based on it.
Paul.
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Thanks, we also agree, and intend to produce educational curriculum for kids based on it.
Paul.
If I could swing it based on price I'd want two, one to use and one to keep in its box (assuming it had a box).
dont change a thing! keep on truckin! do exactly as you do and ge the c65 released. the point is, the c65 is not a c64 even if it emulates the c64. waste time? building for computers is a passion and may be a hobby for some. point in point; HOW NEAT WOULD IT TO BE TO SEE NEW C65 GAMES RELEASED?
IM ALL IN. I WANT A C65.
if the c65 would have picked up and received an upgrade to processor speed, the amiga would have shat itself. from 4MHZ to say 1.3ghz or higher and stays up with modern pc's, something amigas fail to achieve, this computer is not only an Amiga killer, its a PC killer
id love to run GEOS in Native c65 state and connect to the internet and play games in a cell/window in the OS Gui. i hope there is going to be a 24 bit true colour update for this or an add on card.
WAVETABLE SYNTHESIS (emu8000/emu10k1) WOULD BE SWEET. just like the SBAWE32.
What can be done in C65 mode at the moment? I know nothing about C65 but I am still looking forward for C65 features.
Sadly I see nothing in C65 mode too.
When was this project at beginning, I was happy that we'll see at end working C65...
I had also part of The Ace OS for C65, but later I cancelled this part 'cause I see no progress in C65 mode. Everywhere is written: Will this in C64 mode work/possible... etc.
Sadly old title of Paul's blog "Making C65/C64 compatible computer" can exclude C65.
After years we all see that C64 was and is and will be always main Commodore computer. I know that these words can see many people as wrong but I have own opinion and each can.
I'm mainly C128 user and now looking forward to C256 instead C65GS. I know C64 community is largest, but this community also destroys each other idea, even attempt do create anything better than C64.
Miro
That's actually a little misleading: The MEGA65 supports C65 mode, but out of habits of comfort we have developed tools that start from C64 mode. This is possible because unlike the C128, you can use all C65 features in C64 mode on a C65. It thus doesn't make any difference if you make a program that starts from C64 or C65 mode -- all the features are available to you.
Basically just two POKEs and the C65 features are all visible, and you can then do things like set 80 column mode etc. Also, the extra memory is available to the CPU the whole time via the MAP instruction, without even enabling the VIC-III registers.
That is, the MEGA65 is definitely C65 compatible. How you use it, is really up to the user.
Paul.
I know that C64 mode in C128 is different, for best compatibility are extra features of C128 disabled.
Available is only 1/2 MHz switch and VDC.
Paul - really look at C65 mode - native mode is forgotten in M65. Why to use C65 features through C64 mode? It's bit like running 64-bit programs from VDM 'cause CPU is capable to run them... And trying use not VDM, but real MD-DOS to run them - what always fail.
In Commodore speaking: Running software with C65 features in C64 mode and then trying to run them on real C64 what always fail.
We need not C64 mode to run C65 software. And native mode has not progress...
Even - resolution is 800x600 - what with 1280x400?
When we leave colors aside, C128 can display 800x600 pixel mode (VDC).
How will be solved resolution of native C65 larger than 800x600?
When I bought Nexys4DDR, project at that time supported 1920x1200 pixels - even it is aspect ratio of native C64, C128 (VIC-IIe) and 264 Series...
I hope that until release focus will be targeted also on C65 part of project.
'Cause using better features has sense only directly. Me personally and many others need not new or better C64. In early 90s was in magazine title: C65 - lost son of C64. I hope I will not read anywhere: C65 - forgotten mode of M65...
I hope I'll be yet surprised by your work.
Miro
The reason for writing programs to run out of C64 mode while we are busy building the machine is simple: CC65 has a C64 mode profile, but not a C65 mode profile, so it is simply less time and effort to base out of C64 mode. If someone wants to make a CC65 profile for the C65, we'll gladly use it.
The only video mode of the C65 we don't currently support is 1280 pixels wide, which is a very limited mode. Nothing existing actually uses it that we are aware of, and we don't want to let the 100% perfection prevent us from getting the 99.9% out.
As for whether it is our work, actually it is upto the COMMUNITY to write C65 mode software if they want it. We are busy enough building the machine to make it possible for them to do so!
Paul.
Ok Paul.
Understand. No time.
In my eyes it is not good if anything from C65 will not work.
Graphic capabilities of M65 that age inspired me to use 1920x1200 pixel LCDs each. My hope that I'll see really next step from 320H(C64)-640H(C128) to 1280H(C65) is away.
My C128 inspired me to use 2 desktop system on PC, then I extended it to 3rd, available pixel space is great, C128 reached 800x600, I was awaiting mentioned 1280x400... Ok, it is only one feature, for some not important, for some rare used, no matter - 1st not compatible part, but still C64 compatible much more. Longer time ago you mentioned switch from GS4502 to 6502 for C64 mode for binary compatibility, I was awaiting it too, later it was denied.
I know that I'm talking always about darker side, but I'm not real fan of C64 and always was looking at C65GS as C65 compatible computer, first time I saw your blog in 2013 C65 was the word why I'm watching your project.
I know that my first computer from Commodores was 64, but after switch to Amiga I ended for 5 years retrocomputing, but then it was C128 what reactivated my hobby.
No matter, C65 mode is sadly only side effect of M65 project.
Miro
I feel a little bit like Miro.
We don't need another C64 Clone, what we really want is a C65 Clone.
Some modern enhancements (MEGA-Mode) ist ok, but not really needed.
Freddy
what we need is a c65 computer with c65 programmers. from what i understand this c65 is going to be 8 bit, whereas the real c65 is 16 bit and supports 8bit. the 4510 r3 is an 8bit/16bit processor.
what we need are people who can begin and successfully write software for the c65 level of the computer. without software and support this project is dead in the water, no matter how nostalgic it may be. then theres the c64 side.
if you are going to add a c64 mode, how about 80 column display on a nice crisp blue full screen back ground and either white text or light blue like the c64; perhaps blue text on black back. or even farther 360 column mode with scaled character block legible to the user at that state. how about the ability to bring to the c64 what it doesnt have, more colours and a better sound system? high disk capacity and a fully working GUI with browser and networking support. (on both the c64 and the c65 side)
however those are all dreams, i am aware there will be more coloured sprites and 256 coolours, thats great; we are still going to needa more fashionable leel pf programming heading toward mmx, and sse. say geos comes to fruition, we are all going to want mp3 playback and multiple programs running at once, browser capability, and networking support. i understand thats up to us, it still something to think about.
like i said the most important feature anyone has to focus on first and mostly over all those games, are utilities and applications that add to the system. professionally written. not a crap mess of crap of garbage in bulk like the amiga has seen. some of its good, some of it is crap. thissystem cant live that life. well, i hope not. and im not saying those people didnt try. im just saying the only way this computer platform can take off from here regardless if we are to see new c65's after and a clone or a full system, is software; tons of it other wise, just like the c128, Go C64.
The MEGA65 is fully C65 backwards compatible -- it has the same mixed 8/16-bit processor architecture.
As for hybrid modes that combine various C64 and newer features, this is of course quite possible and up to the community to make what they want. We are just making the tool box that makes it possible for people to have fun doing so.
Paul.
Im the one that gonna waste his time and live to develop games for mega65.
Excellent to hear!
My son wants me to help him write a tower defence game in the style of plants versus zombies. I actually think that sort of game would work very well on the MEGA65 -- especially on the hand-held version. The more the merrier!
Paul.
I don't really see the point of the c64 part of this project, even if the real c65 was intended to have that.
It made some or little sense for commodore to keep that compatability even if it wasn't 100% back in the days. But for this project I can't see the reason. People who want nice c64 emulation with 100% already has better project to turn to. The ultimate c64, bmc64 etc.
Really, drop that c64 part.
Then the c65 part. Is there any love for it, other than the fact that it was an aborted child. Is there a better 8 bit machine that could have been developed today? The stuff that we always wanted but never had? 256 sprites. 16 bit color. 256 kb of ram.
Faster cpu. More display modes. 80 column. Better basic or even some structured language built in.
Why not build the machine that we want, not the one that commodore terminated?
I am not trying to be mean or to start a war here. Just trying to make sense of it all.
This I want always to say:
I need not new C64, I want to use C65 expanded computer.
But this way - always giving main energy, primary focus and making better compatibility to C64 makes for me this project lost.
Really I know that C64 community is big and makes sure that project will be not forgotten, but some - me too - won't new C64...
Yes, C64 was best selling computer ever, but: Was not only one computer!
For me: C128 and I see like time goes that M65 will be better to forget and move to C256.
I remember when I found this project around 2013 I was happy that someday I will have extended C65, now I see I will have not.
Miro
Well, I think you are confusing the two:
1. C64 compatibility. We don't apologise that we think that decent (but not perfect) compatibility is important for many users.
2. Improved C65. This is absolutely what the MEGA65 is. How people decide to use it, is up to them.
Much of the confusion I suspect comes from the simple fact that a real C65 starts in C64 mode and switches up to C65 mode if it sees no reason to stay in C64 mode, which means you can write C65-mode requiring programs that start from C64 BASIC, which is what we have done for convenience due to lack of native C65 support in CC65. We'd love to see someone add a working C65 profile to CC65, so that we can write programs in C to run natively from the C65 BASIC prompt.
But at the end of the day we know that whatever decisions we make, it won't satisfy everyone all of the time, and that's okay. We are actually really glad that there are other projects out there, like the C256 and XC16, so that there is a nice, varied and exciting 8-bit ecosystem.
Paul.
Problem with Ultimate 64: it's only board, while you can get a new case, a keyboard is a problem.
I definitely want the C64 compatibility mode - without it I definitely won't buy the M65.
Which in a sense is my point: Different people want different things from the MEGA65, which is great. It also means that we should, where possible, accommodate the major expected use-cases. This means adding to what the machine can do, without taking anything away.
Paul.
Forum64 thread title says:
C256 Phoenix vs. Mega64 vs. Apple II
What more to say?
Fate of M65 looks that will be used for its C64 mode only.
Miro