Hallo Besucher, der Thread wurde 34k mal aufgerufen und enthält 298 Antworten

letzter Beitrag von Snoopy am

C65-ROM-MEGA-Debatte

    Zitat von Snoopy
    Zitat von mega65
    Zitat von FeralChild

    Definitely not a waste of time.

    1. If the C65 ROM gets open sourced tomorrow, we have several routines we can transplant to improve the original ROMs.
    2. This project is not just for Mega65. I really want to have a Kernal for my Ultimate 64 which can talk both JiffyDOS and DolphinDOS without ROM switching, for now ours is the only one capable of doing so. Main problem is the compatibility, which is not too good as of yet.
    3. I'm having fun working on it.

    Also don't forget that the OpenROMs solve the legal uncertainty for emulators to include a working ROM set.

    It all depends on the rate of compability.


    Besides the own "fun working on it" it could be frustrating, if some people works much on a OpenROM and then 99% of all Mega65 buyers uses the original ROMs because of 100% compabitily. So all the work for the OpenROMs was just for "own fun".

    To be clear here: I am talking primarily about having ROMs for emulators to distribute, not the MEGA65.

    Zitat von Snoopy
    Zitat von mega65

    Of course most people might want to use the genuine ROMs.

    That is what I'm trying to say. :)


    I understand the OpenROM affords from your seller point of view. To ship the Mega65 with at least some ROM in a legal way.

    ... but, yes, if we have no other option, we will at least have SOMETHING to distribute with the MEGA65. This avoids a major potential risk for us, even if people decide for themselves to put original C65 ROMs in the moment they get the machine. The main point is that the machine is at least usable in some way immediately on receiving it.


    Compatibility with specific games is actually usually fairly easy to fix, so if we were forced to do it this way (and I don't think that we will be), then we can easily qualify a list of a few hundred games, if required, by testing them and fixing any incompatibilities. Lots of games actually work just fine with the OpenROMs already, last I checked.


    LG

    Paul.

    Zitat von baxt3r

    Es gibt ja auch noch die Option es wie beim Ultimate64 zu machen.


    Das der User die benötigten ROMS selber besorgen muss
    und sie vor der ersten Benutzung erstmal selber "flashen" muss.


    Diese werden dann vom MEGA65 geprüft
    und gepatcht so das der Rechner erst dann wirklich funktioniert.

    Hej Paul ist das nicht auch eine Option?

    Zitat von Freddy

    So 'cloanto' might have the (c)-rights for the KERNAL, but I think they don't heritate the agreement between CBM & M$.

    This doesn't matter that much as the original Microsoft BASIC for 6502 is now free and open source. It's perfectly legal to modify the source and also distribute derivative binaries commercially: https://github.com/brajeshwar/…-1978/blob/master/LICENSE


    This means you could start from there an (re)implement commands to reach compatibility to BASIC 10.

    Zitat von -trb-
    Zitat von Freddy

    So 'cloanto' might have the (c)-rights for the KERNAL, but I think they don't heritate the agreement between CBM & M$.

    This doesn't matter that much as the original Microsoft BASIC for 6502 is now free and open source. It's perfectly legal to modify the source and also distribute derivative binaries commercially: https://github.com/brajeshwar/…-1978/blob/master/LICENSE


    This means you could start from there an (re)implement commands to reach compatibility to BASIC 10.

    That's one of the problems with that old stuff.


    The publisher of these sourcecode doesn't have all the rights of it:

    Zitat von osnews.com

    Which, coincidentally, makes it quite illegal, since this code is being published without Microsoft’s or Bill Gates’ permission.

    Only because someone tells "here, it's free now", that doesn't mean he has all rights to give it free.


    To use this sourcecodes doesn't solve any potential copyright problem!

    Moreover: that's Version 1.1 NOT 2.0

    Additional thoughts: This BASIC (1.1) also needs some kind of BIOS (Basic Input/Output System), or how does it read from Keyboard? How does it write do Display (many different Display-Chips out there), how does it handle Serial output? (which Chip? VIA, ACIA, CIA ???).

    Zitat von Snoopy

    Only because someone tells "here, it's free now", that doesn't mean he has all rights to give it free.

    This source code is out in the wild since 2015 if I'm not mistaken. Not only but also on github. Since 2018 github belongs to Microsoft. So why should they have ignored this all the years if it's illegal?

    Zitat von -trb-
    Zitat von Snoopy

    Only because someone tells "here, it's free now", that doesn't mean he has all rights to give it free.

    This source code is out in the wild since 2015 if I'm not mistaken. Not only but also on github. Since 2018 github belongs to Microsoft. So why should they have ignored this all the years if it's illegal?

    Maybe because noone sold a product using the sourcecode? And so Microsoft even didn't know about the published sourcecode or as long it's no problem for them?


    It's a difference if someone uses a copyright code only for his hobby or to sell a product (e.g. a Mega65 computer) using a copyrighted code.


    As long as Microsoft gave no official statement, that it's okay for them, you can't be sure they agree.

    Zitat von Snoopy

    It's a difference if someone uses a copyright code only for his hobby or to sell a product (e.g. a Mega65 computer) using a copyrighted code.

    What about THEC64? What about the C64DTV? And what about Cloanto selling Commodore 64 ROMs including BASIC? Not to mention Cloanto selling a licence for commercial distribution of C64 ROMs?

    Zitat von -trb-

    What about THEC64? What about the C64DTV? And what about Cloanto selling Commodore 64 ROMs including BASIC? Not to mention Cloanto selling a licence for commercial distribution of C64 ROMs?

    valid question. We are happy, that we don't need to answer it ;-)

    In principle this could be done, but (a) no patching of original ROMs is required; and (b) we really want the MEGA65 to be able to boot up first time, without having to mess about with finding and installing ROMs.


    LG

    Paul.

    Zitat von -trb-
    Zitat von Snoopy

    It's a difference if someone uses a copyright code only for his hobby or to sell a product (e.g. a Mega65 computer) using a copyrighted code.

    What about THEC64? What about the C64DTV? And what about Cloanto selling Commodore 64 ROMs including BASIC? Not to mention Cloanto selling a licence for commercial distribution of C64 ROMs?

    The answers should hopefully know these companies, if the lawyers knocks on their doors. :)



    Also published at github:


    https://github.com/mist64/cbmsrc

    Zitat von https://github.com/mist64/cbmsrc

    Commodore Source Code


    This repository collects original source code of various Commodore Business Machines (CBM) computers converted to a modern encoding (ASCII, LF, indentation).


    The only problem is: You don't know if you can use them to sell products which use these sources without copyright problems. ;)

    Zitat von -trb-
    Zitat von Snoopy

    The answers should hopefully know these companies, if the lawyers knocks on their doors. :)

    The point is obviously nobody will come knocking,

    But you can't be sure. That's the problem.


    Even if never someone knock, you don't know it. And that's a situation I can understand, that someone doesn't take that risc only for selling some products.

    jens, hatte mal irgendwann geschrieben das er mit den jungs von mega in kontakt wäre und ihm das

    auch gefallen hat, was sie auf die beine gestellt haben. aber ob die mal zusammen machen wollen oder

    wollten, ging daraus nicht hervor.


    was die marke commodore angeht, ist er linzenznehmer und darf produkte unter diesem namen auf den markt

    bringen, was die eigentümer der marke absegnen.

    Interesting things are happening in the Commander X16 team. They started to create their firmware by taking the original C64 ROMs and hacked them to support their hardware. In parallel they started talks with Cloanto to obtain a proper license. Few days ago they announced on the FB page, that the effort has failed and they will go another way: create their own ROM from scratch. Of course we pointed them to our project (I was hoping we could join our forces), but today David Murray announced something even more interesting (link):


    Announcement! Thank you to Peri Fractic, who managed to get us a preliminary agreement with Cloanto at the last minute. As such, we will resume development with the existing Kernal, which was always my first choice in this project. Sorry for all of the drama, as apparently we are back on the original course. We'll get the emulator and GitHub opened back up.


    I wonder what will be the terms of the agreement? What will it cover? Will the final code be open-source?