I used "T" option to force the board to 50Hz and saved with "W".
Now i installed the VIC 8565R2 and the MOS8580, powercycle and it works.
The next test is to power off the board for a long time and power on it to verify if it initializes correctly.
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I used "T" option to force the board to 50Hz and saved with "W".
Now i installed the VIC 8565R2 and the MOS8580, powercycle and it works.
The next test is to power off the board for a long time and power on it to verify if it initializes correctly.
Now the board is cold, i turned it back on and the output is b&n and out of sync.
At this point my board works properly only when it is heated. ![]()
Is it the board, the vic, or the way the vic is inside the socket? same for cia.
All chips are in socket correctly.
The first time i send back the board to Jens because the Teminal Program didn't work even without chips installed, besides the black and white not synced screen.
Yesterday and today i have tested that the terminal program works correctly after the board is heated. Is it strange ?
Summary:
- at cold the board video output is in black and white not synced, the terminal console connection don't work
- at hot the board video output is well synced and in full color, the terminal console connection works properly
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Alles anzeigenAll chips are in socket correctly.
The first time i send back the board to Jens because the Teminal Program didn't work even without chips installed, besides the black and white not synced screen.
Yesterday and today i have tested that the terminal program works correctly after the board is heated. Is it strange ?
Summary:
- at cold the board video output is in black and white not synced, the terminal console connection don't work
- at hot the board video output is well synced and in full color, the terminal console connection works properly
This also could point to a VIC or CIA that is on the edge to silicon heaven and only works proper if heated up.
... not sure how to check for this ...
But the board without any chip should work with the terminal program, or not ?
At cold the communication terminal don't work, but if the board is heated (and with the chips installed obviously) the terminal program works very well.
In the last month i bought a 250466 socketed motherboard with chips installed from a commodore technician who have tested all with diagnostic cartridge for C64.
I tested the 2 CIA and the ViC6569R5 from this board in the Reloaded with same result of B&W non synced screen.
2 days ago i used the Ultimate II cartridge to test the chips in the reloaded with 2 little programs. No problem.
Just a thought:
Check the supply voltage in "cold" and "hot" state, maybe your power supply has a problem? I don't believe Jens let the board "warm up" before checking and he stated everything was OK when he checked it.
It must be something that is different between Jens' and your setup, and that counts in the MOS ICs and the power supply I guess, or this you send it in, too?
The Power Supply is the official Commodore one suitable for the board.
Concerning to the Vic i have tested various chip in the Reloaded: 2 x 8565R2, 2 x 6569R5, 1 x 6569R3, all from working C64s. Therefore i exclude them.
The 2 CIA remains. I have just tested a pair from the socketed 250466 working motherboard, but i don't have anymore socketed.
I start looking for other 2 CIA working on the net.
Danny sent the board only, and when I suggested that the PSU is a possible cause, he insisted on getting the Commodore 12V supply, which I included in the shipment to him. So that part is covered: The PSU is OK.
The funny part is that the USB connection is completely separated from the rest: The USB-Serial bridge is powered by the USB port. The MCU, which it talks to, is connected through diodes, so there is no current flowing in the wrong direction, no matter what power sequence you choose.
The baud rate on the USB-serial bridge is derived from the USB port itself. The Baud rate fromt he MCU is derived from the 27MHz crystal. The colour carrier for the VIC chip is *directly* taken from the 17.7344MHz oscillator (no PLL involved), so the colour issue is totally separated from the baud rate issue.
If the C64RMK2 is really the cause, then two crystals swing at the wrong frequency. How likely is that??
Jens
How do i verify that ?
How do i verify that ?
Ideally with a frequency counter. There are oscilloscopes that also have a "counter" function, but these are usually not as precise as a counter.
If you lose colour, then the devisation from 17.7344MHz must be a lot higher than 100ppm.
If you lose connection at 19200 Baud, then the deviation must be higher than 1%.
The crystals on the C64RMK2 have a precision of 30ppm (all three), and with the board working here without warmup indicates that these are OK. Further, if a crystal is not swinging at correct frequency, than it's more likely that it's off by a factor of three. This is surely not happening for the 17.7344MHz Xtal, as you'd see no picture at all.
So a possible explanation is that there is GND noise induced that skips or adds a cycle here and there, and with rising temperature, the load capacitance also shifts.
Do you maybe live close to an AM radio station? Is the 230V mains network of your house fully grounded? Or does Italy only use 2-pin 230V sockets?
Jens
I used "T" option to force the board to 50Hz and saved with "W".
That's just the TOD frequency, which is rarely used by any program. It's set according to the video standard that is found. The computer should start normally and even in colour if you choose 60Hz TOD frequency. The frequency itself is taken from the mains network on old C64 models.
The possibility of altering the TOD frequency has been added in order to simulate an NTSC C64 being operated in Europe (which happened a lot, for example when American soldiers in European air bases have brought their C64), and of course the other way round. In any case, the computer will run at the exact same speed as with the "other" TOD frequency, as it's just a *possible* source for the CIA chips to run the time-of-day clock.
Jens
No, the socket are 3-pin with ground.
Further i test the board on my uncle house, to make sure that the disturbance is not my home.
Now I have removed the 2 CIA, I am cooling the board, to verify that the image is at least correctly centered and in color at power up.
This could attribute the cause of my problems to the 2 CIA
No way ![]()
Even without the 2 CIA and the board cold, the video output is in B&W screen.
This exclude the 2 CIA from the cause of the problem.
Therefore all the chips are good.
Another test to get closer to the source of the problem:
- switch off, let the board cool down
- make USB connection
- start terminal program, set 19200/8N1/no flow control
- power up C64RMK2
You will likely get the "garbage" that you got before in the terminal program.
Now let the system sit and run for an hour, enough to warm up to a temperature where you believe it works. Do not switch off yet! Instead, leave the terminal program open and after the warmup-phase, press space. Do you see correct characters now? If so, then press "I" to see the measurement values that have been recorded when the machine was cold.
Jens
Ok i will test.
For now after some minutes (2 - 3) the board works properly, after a powercycle.
It's not a problem, the most important thing is that the board works ad due.
Now i switch off the reloaded to let it cool down.
I have put the board in a C64 case and actually i installed the following chips:
- MOS8500
- 2 x CIA 6526A (216A)
- VIC8565R2
- MOS8580 (SID 1)
- SID6581R4AR (SID 2)
The board is cold but now when i switch on the video and the terminal console output are ok ![]()
It's strange, the card is now cold.
I will test tomorrow.
Thanks to all and for your support Jens.
Your help is important for me. ![]()
- switch off, let the board cool down
- make USB connection
- start terminal program, set 19200/8N1/no flow control
- power up C64RMK2You will likely get the "garbage" that you got before in the terminal program.
Now let the system sit and run for an hour, enough to warm up to a temperature where you believe it works. Do not switch off yet! Instead, leave the terminal program open and after the warmup-phase, press space. Do you see correct characters now? If so, then press "I" to see the measurement values that have been recorded when the machine was cold.
Jens
Done, after press space for the menu i have only strange characters, then press "I" no other output.
Only a powercycle the console, after the garbage, shows correct output, as following image:
Bitte melde dich an, um diesen Anhang zu sehen.
A powercycle is necessary to correctly initialize the board, but it takes 2 - 3 minutes of heating to works properly.
Not a great problem for me.
Two question:
1. when I insert the Turbo Chameleon 64 cartridge, which parts of the Reloaded are running ?
2. I have audio and video both on Reloaded and on Chameleon 64, does this mean I have 2 C64 running at the same time ?
Thanks
I can confirm that the original C64Reloaded does not work properly with a few things that use the USER port (like the WiModem, Jason Ranheim EPROM programmer, and Covox Voice Master digitizer) * until * you use a real 8701.
Dazu wäre ein statement von jens sehr nett. Das erschreckt mich doch etwas, wie sieht es aus mit floppy speedern? Prof.Dos ? Dolphin Dos? Funktionieren wenigstens die?