Hallo Besucher, der Thread wurde 114k mal aufgerufen und enthält 185 Antworten

letzter Beitrag von Frenetic am

Nano SwinSID upgrades (paddles, etc...)

    With respect to the unanswered question above regarding firmware, there are quite a lot of us with original spec nano-swinsids probably
    wondering if Your firmware is compatible? Paddle and mouse support is nice, but not everyone will want to buy another nano swinsid if a
    firmware update can get us much closer to experiencing the SID as it should be.


    We know You don't want to just put the FW out there due to the possibility of clones popping up everywhere, fully understandable giving
    the time and resources already spent, but how about selling it via Paypal for a fee?, especially if we are looking at years before You make
    it available. It's just an idea anyway.

    That's fine if you don't want a full or even extended version, i planned to be somewhat modular:
    - just the bare minimal to make sound
    - compatibility with the old games (env3/osc3 available too)
    - full compatibility (added mouse/paddle support)
    - extended (and some flashy leds :) )


    Please understand, that i can't control the firmware any more, if i make it downloadable even for a fee --- somebody buys it then s/he can upload it to as many blank/old device as s/he pleases....


    The HC version of the swinsid is not compatible with the old version of the hardware (needs a bit of modification) however the latest developments are meant for a more different hardware.


    But currently we haven't even completed the hw nor the sw ... there are some in progress versions out, but sadly those still has some bugs in them.

    only a though the original inventor didn't gain any money from creating the swin sid it is freely developed from mr. swinkels and I did in the first time many hardware prototypes all designs are free downloadable so I scratch my head why you want now all the money for something you only improved but didn't invented. It would only be fair to just release the improved Firmware for the old Hardware Design. But that's only my thought.
    Regards

    Then ask the ones too who only sells the clones..... They added jack s...t to the project.


    Didn't I released the "Lazy fix"? Didn't it get cloned? Did the clone sellers claim 99% compatibility while has no idea what the actual product capable of? Did i get valuable help from Swinkels in the enhancements?
    I only got some tips/feedback from 'Nobody', and a pointing-to-the-right-direction from a demo coder.


    Also, Hermit is almost completely rewritten the firmware (based on resid-fp) and redesigned some parts of the hardware already.


    It may go open source one day... but after this kind of responses.....

    Zitat von CodeKiller

    Please understand, that i can't control the firmware any more, if i make it downloadable even for a fee --- somebody buys it then s/he can upload it to as many blank/old device as s/he pleases....

    Thanks for the reply codekiller, I figured You would say that about the FW even if it's payed for. I think 99.9% of Us are on Your side here, just ignore those that expect
    the benefits of Your hard work for free. As good as the standard nano-swinsid is, it's great that You've picked up from where Swinkels left off.


    I think I'll wait till You've finished Your current projects then likely I'll buy the Nano Swinsid that has full paddle support for my 64c. Maybe the exchange rate might be a bit better
    by then as well.

    Brand new stuff has been added to the swinsid (ultimate):
    As i have mentioned, there is a softconfig for various setup -- now it has the ability to mute selected channels (osc1 / osc2 / osc3 / classic digi) in a bitmask fashion (for example you can mute the osc2 and digi track, but still get the osc1 and osc3)


    So you will be able to record a music in every "track" independently. The calculation, syncing and all this sort of jazz is still present, only the sound output is muted for that channel, so it won't affect the other not muted channels.


    However you can't switch these channels on-the-fly because it relies on the 3 unused address and the 2 readable registers (the POTs/mouse registers are entirely different circuit, no communication between them) as the entire softconfig, but maybe with freezer carts..

    Hi. Has there been ideas of moving the swinsid over on a different mcu ? I was looking at tiny STM32 MCUs. They are not that much fast in clock speed, but with 32bit you can put the whole 23 bit LFSR noise generator in fewer cycles. The 16 bit filters? I suppose that with a 8 bit mcu there is a lot of high byte low byte instructions performed that can be cooked down.. I looked at the price also.. here for example from mouser, €2.13/pcs for 10. http://eu.mouser.com/ProductDe…electronics/STM32F042G6U6
    Btw, I've ordered the Swinsid Ultimate. Can't wait :)


    It seems that Crisp's point was that your work is based on the work done by others and that's not only his thought. You added another example, resid-fp where your work is based on. You got an advantage when you based your work on the work of others, otherwise you wouldn't have done that. Usually the development process is much faster and there are quicker results when people are directly or indirectly collaborating.


    If you blame the clone sellers that they "steal" something which is freely available, I'm wondering how your approach is different or better?


    Hey, this is a hobbyist project, there isn't a big market value. I don't think that anybody can run a business on selling the "world greatest SID emulation in hardware" to earn "the big money". Yes, there are always some "strange" people out there but most of us doing this just for fun. E.g. I build a Micro SwinSID on a small stripboard just for fun. Does it make a deeper sense to cut off the other hobbyist from a hobbyist project? I have my doubts.

    wouldn't it be in first line swinkels who would need to talk to codekiller if he would feel ripped off? and does anybody know how codekiller agreed with swinkels on this improvement? yes, no ?


    also, i googled for a while but could not really find under which license swinsid is released.


    i was lucky to get a prototype version of the "swinsid ultimate", and i can say that it sounds very much like the real thing. and an audionut like me says that, it means something.


    so far i only listened to some "dane" tunes and jeff's 6581 doped cows, which both sounded flawless to me. it will take me a while to fire up my hubbard comparisons. i would have never expected that this is possible to achieve, it's really impressive work.


    so looking over my thumb, the price is maybe 10 euro higher than the original nano, but the sound is worlds apart. and also the additional functions: NTSC/PAL clock change via software, sampling via audio in, custom wavetable for $9x, $Ax, $B waveforms, paddles work now, 4 leds that can display voice amplitude and samples - or other functions, etc etc...


    what would people expect, that codekiller solders this and buys additional parts for free, apart from the collective coding work that went into it? or gives out schematic files and people solder it themselves? who is able to do this? or should he, as mentioned, release it openly and wait for the chinese to sell it for him?


    DSC_0775_Fotor.jpg




    i also don't think that this can be a "big bucks" thing at this stage, at the moment it is more about covering costs for parts and get a little back for the time you need to solder that thing.


    at the final stage, in a finalized design without wirewrap, i think it could be easy to sell a few hundred of these. but still then it is not my business "who gets which piece of the cake".

    Zitat von oneBitman

    i was lucky to get a prototype version of the "swinsid ultimate", and i can say that it sounds very much like the real thing. and an audionut like me says that, it means something.


    so far i only listened to some "dane" tunes and jeff's 6581 doped cows, which both sounded flawless to me. it will take me a while to fire up my hubbard comparisons. i would have never expected that this is possible to achieve, it's really impressive work.


    DSC_0775_Fotor.jpg

    The thing is...when and where can we buy the final product :)

    Ich hab die Version auch gesehen, als ich mich mit Codekiller getroffen habe.
    Wenn er welche da hat, kanst du diese Version heute schon kaufen. Fertig ist das Projekt aber sicher noch nicht.

    Eslapion hat erwähnt daß codekiller pins mit 0.46mm verwenden sollte und nicht die dickeren mit 0.65mm :alt:


    Als ich den PLAnkton mit 0.46 bestellt hatte, hatte ich mich zuvor im Datenblatt meines präzisionssockel vergewissert dass 0.46mm innerhalb der specs ist und das ist es perfekt ...daher würde ich wohl den ratschlag von eslapion annehmen und die swinsids ultimate mit 0.46 pins herstellen wenn ich codekiller wäre. Ich sehe jetzt kein grund extra 0.65 zu nehmen.

    Up sorry...no problem.


    Eslapion said you should use pins with 0.46mm instead of 0.65mm.


    As i've bought the PLAnkton with 0.45mm pins i'd checked the technical data sheet before from my precision socket and it fits perfectly so i would say use 0.45mm. I don't see any reason why using 0.65mm for swinsid.


    Actually licensing works the opposite way. If a license doesn't fit your needs, you are the one who have to talk to the license holders before you use their work. SwinSD from swinkels is "intended for testing purpose only, for non-commercial usage" (http://www.swinkels.tvtom.pl/swinsid/schematic.htm) and resid-fp is GPLv2 (first google match is https://github.com/fesh0r/b-em/tree/master/src/resid-fp). By the way, if you can't find a license for something that doesn't mean you can do whatever you want. The opposite is the case, no license gives you no permissions.


    Yes, I built SwinSID myself simply because I can. Because it's my hobby. If you look on the forum I am far away from being the only one who did that. But surely not to save money. Guess what's the easiest way to save money with "useless" stuff like the C64? Trash it! ;-)


    Nobody expects that codekiller provides the hardware for free. Nobody has a problem if codekiller sells assembly sets. I can't recommend to sell finished devices because in the EU you are then responsible for all the paperwork and certifications like CE. But beside that I guess nobody has a problem if codekiller sells finished devices.


    But as I said, how would you blame the clone sellers that they "steal" something which is freely available, if your approach isn't better?
    If you anyway can't earn "the big money", where is the deeper sense to cut off other hobbyists from a hobbyist project?


    However, I don't want to highjack this thread with a licensing discussion. I understand that the step in hiding the work was born from a frustration and I don't want to be the one who raise it even more. My intention was to add a different viewpoint for reflection which I guess I did.