Es gibt 188 Antworten in diesem Thema, welches 23.669 mal aufgerufen wurde. Der letzte Beitrag (19. Oktober 2025 um 13:27) ist von Negan.

  • Schließt man eine C64 Tastatur mit Zeilen und Spalten nach diesem Bitte melde dich an, um diesen Link zu sehen. neu zuordnet an, kommt folgendes dabei raus:

    Bitte melde dich an, um diesen Anhang zu sehen.

    Der C16 hat eine Taste "weniger", die SHIFT Taste ist doppelt es wird nicht zwischen der links und rechts unterschieden.

    Das Ergebnis ist gar nicht so schlecht.
    Mich würden genau 3 Tasten stören:

    [CLR HOME] würde ich gerne wieder an den original Platz [RESTORE] haben.

    [ESC] dann oben links wo sie hingehört.
    [RSHIFT] mit der Funktion [SHIFT] belegt.

    Die anderen Unstimmigkeiten also der Tausch Cursor Vertikal gegen Cursor Horizontal, @, -, *, +, =, £ würde mich weniger stören.

    Translation:

    If you connect a C64 keyboard with rows and columns reassigned according the scheme, the above picture shows the result.


    The C16 has one key "less", the SHIFT key is double, there is no distinction between left and right.

    The result is not so bad.

    Exactly 3 keys would disturb me:

    [CLR HOME] I would like to have back to the original place [RESTORE].

    [ESC] then top left where it belongs.

    [RSHIFT] with the function [SHIFT] assigned.

    The other inconsistencies, i.e. the exchange of cursor vertical against cursor horizontal, @, -, *, +, =, £ would bother me less.

  • Heh heh, no problem! I've been thinking about using the Reset button for that, I still need to test the feasibility tough.

    that's what I also did..

    Bitte melde dich an, um diesen Link zu sehen.

    I used an Ardruino Nano to look at the reset line.

    when pressed twice or hold for certain time, I select a different ROM or enable 64K mod.

    [Bitte melde dich an, um diesen Link zu sehen.]

    [Bitte melde dich an, um diesen Link zu sehen.]

  • Yeah, but my idea would be more along the lines of having one ROM enabled by default, or the other one in case you power the machine on while holding the reset button. That is very easy to do with just a few components. No microcontrollers where we can do without :).

  • Well, yes and no. I hate Raspis inside or onboard my old computers too, but the external drives for the 8-Bit Commodores always had their own logic (1541, 1551 or 1581 attached to the C16). Therefore I have no problem connecting a Pi1541 to a plus/4 because the plus/4 keeps being unattached and that's ok.

    The SD2IEC needs an AtMega, but that's a bit different. It would be that small to be nice integrated on the board for having a transportable 264 without need of an extra drive.

    Ok, and I understand you SukkoPera now, why you haven't used the holes of the TV-tuner on your LittleSixteen-board: You only placed connectors where the holes for C16 and C64 are right on the same place so that the resulting board will fitt into a C16-case and a C64-case too. But on the right side there even is the need - if you have a real 16-case - to use the C64-metal plate according to the different joystick ports. Is that right?

    Wouldn't it be nice to aim at TWO DIFFERENT boards? One will be a small C16-replacement-board enriched with all the things like TED-protection to get a broken C16 again working by using the chips in that new board and the other one could be the "V364 neo"-board with all the bells and whistles together on a full size C64-board class, mainly to build an totally new 264 computer within an icomp-black-case (and that board should have the two keyboard-connectors to make it possible using an C64/VIC20-keyboard).

    Ideen, die ich mit eurer Hilfe gerne wahr machen würde:

    1. Eine wirklich neue Maus am C64 auf Basis der Bitte melde dich an, um diesen Link zu sehen.

    2. Die erste echte Maus für die 264er mittels Anschluss einer Bitte melde dich an, um diesen Link zu sehen.

  • GeTE the C64 keyboard would not be a perfect solution see Bitte melde dich an, um diesen Link zu sehen.

    But by rewiring 3 keys and putting some stickers on the key caps it would be fully useable solution, with still some keys on the wrong location.

  • I'm not sure if you, SukkoPera have already found the other thread where toms01 has presented his new C16 board:

    Bitte melde dich an, um diesen Link zu sehen.

    For me as a normal mortal being I can only say you both should bring your approaches together and it will result in the best practice solution. That's on a level where magic happens and I can give no needfull input and only watch like a kid under the christmas tree. :verehr:

    And if you ask, I found the posting there, where I wrote in all the ideas a new C16-board should have:

    Bitte melde dich an, um diesen Link zu sehen.

    One thing is missing in my old wish list. You had always the chance to kill the TED by unplugging the joystick without turning the system of before, but there has been an easy circuit developed to switch the joysticks while being turned on for the 264. It would be nice to integrate that switch on the new motherboard. I like to have only one joystick port on the second hole and on the first hole in the case the reset button, joystick switch button and a SD2IEC could be implemented:

    Bitte melde dich an, um diesen Link zu sehen.

    Ideen, die ich mit eurer Hilfe gerne wahr machen würde:

    1. Eine wirklich neue Maus am C64 auf Basis der Bitte melde dich an, um diesen Link zu sehen.

    2. Die erste echte Maus für die 264er mittels Anschluss einer Bitte melde dich an, um diesen Link zu sehen.

    2 Mal editiert, zuletzt von GeTE (27. Januar 2023 um 15:31)

  • I mostly agree with you, I understand the needs of the Pi1541 but I'm still not a fan of it. Keeping it outside of the case sounds surely better anyway 😜.

    As for the rest, i know someday I will have to drop the physical compatibility with the C16 case, but I'll strive to make that day as far off as possible. Maintaining two versions is just too complicated, so it's just a matter of seeing how much stuff we can squeeze in the original case before we are forced to switch once and for all to the bigger form factor and that'll be it for the original case.

    We are already pretty much borderline, because using the C16 case already requires widening the cassette port hole and using a 3D replacement side bracket. The UserPort slot will be the last mod that I'll consider doable on it.

    Oh lol, no, I'd never heard of that other replica before! I'll have a look at the thread tonight, thanks for the heads up!

    The reset button can be placed in a dedicated hole in the side bracket or in the RF connector hole, but I'll agree that the latter could probably see some better use.

    The joystick switch could be a nice idea. The joystick ports on L16 already have buffers and ESD protection diodes, so the swapping is much safer, while still not recommended :).

  • Bobbel: You can download the full Kicad project from the GitHub page. You have been selling other projects of mine for years (which means you have must have generated Gerbers) which are shared the exactly same way, what's the problem with this one? (Note you can't sell this one.)

    As soon as I installed KiCad it works like a charm. I had to reinstall my computer some time ago and only installed Sprint Layout. In the company I use EasyEDA during the breaks because it does not require installation.



    Bitte melde dich an, um diesen Link zu sehen.

    Offizieller JiffyDOS Reseller

  • So, I've read the topic of the other replica. From what I understand, it is similar to release V2 of LittleSixteen, in that it is an almost 1:1 copy of the original board, except that it was made with surface-mount components. It doesn't seem to contain improvements to the original design. There aren't many pictures or details though, the topic seems to focus more on the 6502 -> 8501 adapter.

    Something that is not clear is also: where did those projects end up? Was the board ever release? Schematics? Gerbers? Design files? Was it ever put up for sale somewhere? What happened to the 6502 adapter, too? It seems code was to be contributed to the original Fake7501 project (whose hardware was used), but I'm not sure it ever was.

    Such adapter is probably the most interesting thing that could be added to L16. If the developers would like to do that, I would be really happy. The kicad project is available on GitHub for anybody to study and modify, but let's try not to do duplicate work :). Please start from the devel branch, in case, as it already has some more features wrt the released V3.

    I have also been thinking a bit more about the suggested modifications:

    - I am not sure the C64C case has much more space available than the original C16 case. The width is the same (note that L16 currently has the same dimensions as the original C16 board, which is narrower than the case it sits on, it can grow by ~10 cm) and while it seems to allow for more space in height, the steeper keyboard angle might not make it all useable.

    - Switching to SMD components could definitely free a lot of space, but we would lose a lot of the retro feeling and, more importantly, the board would need to be laid out again from scratch, retested, etc. It seems the other replica experienced noise issues with the video signal, which we luckily avoided by staying close to the original layout. Anyway, I think that the space we will gain with the width extension will be sufficient for all the mods I have already planned (256kB Hannes-style RAM, SID and UserPort).

    - Support for the C64 keyboard is desired by many, which I honestly didn't expect. Natas 's analysis seems to imply that even with a rewired connector we wouldn't get perfect compatibility and still require KERNAL patches. This sort of vanifies the whole thing IMHO, as I'm not sure all games and software uses KERNAL routines to read the keyboard. What if the they have their own code? A "translator" circuit would need to be done with a CPLD/FPGA, as the way the keyboard is read makes it hard to make with a microcontroller.

    - Swapping the joystick ports could be done with a simple DPDT switch wired to a pin header that allows swapping the Enable signals of the two ports (which enable two 74x244 in L16). Using a 74x157/257 would be cleaner but it would also take more space, and a switch would still need to be put somewhere. Note that the simple solution shouldn't put the CPU/TED in danger as those lines are buffered through U11, which is a 74x125.

    - Another switch could be used for the KERNAL switcher, to keep things simple, but I have to think more about this.

    - Someone suggested to stick a 3.5mm jack with S-Video in the RF connector slot: why should we do that? S-Video is basically already available from the Video Port.

    - That slot would probably be better occupied by a direct SID audio output once we have that.

    - SID recreations cannot be easily used as most of them don't care for the Clock input pin and recreate the clock signal internally, assuming C64 frequency. The original C16 SIDcard provided the SID with a different clock, so they just sound bad. But I'm working with Frenetic to get his SIDkick working at least :).

  • From what I understand, it is similar to release V2 of LittleSixteen

    Nope.

    Bitte melde dich an, um diesen Link zu sehen.

    There are already a few improvements on the board. SRAM, Eprom, ...

    But I wanted to take care of all the other ICs that are no longer there first.

    Something that is not clear is also: where did those projects end up?

    As long as there are no existing connection options from the original, the project is dead for me. (Expansion port).

    Of course, everyone can see it differently.

    What happened to the 6502 adapter, too?

    This was released and a collective order was organised in the forum.

    Bitte melde dich an, um diesen Link zu sehen.

    It seems code was to be contributed to the original Fake7501 project (whose hardware was used), but I'm not sure it ever was.

    No, we designed a new hardware because we didn't like the one from Jim Brain (we used a much smaller CPLD). Also, the CPLD code there is not right.

    I had also built the 6529B on a CPLD basis, which also worked with the Plus/4 on the user port.

    PLA and 6523T from the Paddle were also once copied with CPLDs.

    Bitte melde dich an, um diesen Link zu sehen.

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  • Do I unterstand correctly, that only the gerbers and jed files of the adapter are available?

    yes

    Bitte melde dich an, um diesen Link zu sehen.

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  • This is a community project and all members have to agree to the publication. That was the result.

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  • [...] From what I understand, it is similar to release V2 of LittleSixteen, in that it is an almost 1:1 copy of the original board [...]

    Well, is the naming of your small replacement board with "LittleSixteen" a reminiscence to Bitte melde dich an, um diesen Link zu sehen.?

    If that is true, I shouldn't call the idea of a full size board, with everything on it, better not V364 neo or V364 Cost Reduced ... I suggest calling it "SweetSixteen" according to Bitte melde dich an, um diesen Link zu sehen.. :thumbup:

    Ideen, die ich mit eurer Hilfe gerne wahr machen würde:

    1. Eine wirklich neue Maus am C64 auf Basis der Bitte melde dich an, um diesen Link zu sehen.

    2. Die erste echte Maus für die 264er mittels Anschluss einer Bitte melde dich an, um diesen Link zu sehen.

  • kinzi that was about burning knowledge if I remember the last year in school correctly ???

    Seit Juli 2019 wieder mit dem Commodore Virus infiziert.

    Aktuell: C64 Reloaded MK2, C64C, C64 Brotkasten Original, C64 Brotkasten in blassgrau, Amiga 500, Amiga 600, Amiga 2000 (Octagon 2008), Amiga 2000 mit PC-XT, VIC20, Commodore 16 mit 64KB Umbau nach ComputeMit Zeitschrift..

  • kinzi that was about burning knowledge if I remember the last year in school correctly ???

    Fahrenheit 451 was about burning books, yes:

    Bitte melde dich an, um diesen Link zu sehen.

  • Den mit schwarzem Bild kann man aber sicherlich recht preiswert reparieren. Dafür gleich ein neues Board spendieren?