Instandsetzung und Nachbau eines Kim-1

Zitat von Markus64

Natas, sorry für meinen Kommentar, aber ich war gestern etwas angefressen.

Zur Motosteuerung: der läuft momentan noch dauerhaft. In der Original Tape-Routine ist das wohl nicht vorgesehen, den Motor zu schalten. Aber irgendwo hatte ich "Motor On / OFF" in einem Listing gesehen, weiß nicht mehr wo

Schau ich mir noch an.

Keine Sorge, wegen deines Kommentares, sowas nehme ich mir nicht zu Herzen.

Richtig die KIM Routine hat keine Motorsteuerung aber Supertape http://retro.hansotten.nl/6502…e/kim-1-enhancement-prom/KIM-1 ist dafür gebaut worden um daran rum zu basteln, es war auch damals üblich Teile zu tauschen und sobald es was besseres gab zu ersetzen.

Viele Platinen aus der Zeite hatten sogar extra dafür einen Prototypingbereich wie z.B. die Apple I-Platine.

Wenn es stilecht sein soll achtet einfach drauf das es die Bauteile damals(TM) schon gab.

Wer hatte den keinen Kernal-Umschalter mit einem EPROM im C64?

Das mit der Motosteuerung hatte ich hier gesehen: http://retro.hansotten.nl/6502…kim-1-articles/tape-copy/

Zitat von Markus64

Das mit der Motosteuerung hatte ich hier gesehen: http://retro.hansotten.nl/6502…kim-1-articles/tape-copy/

Dann war das damals wohl ziemlich verbreitet.

Problem ist nur das die Steuerung sich vermutlich mit der Floppy beißt.

Hallo!

Sorry für die maschinelle Übersetzung, ich spreche überhaupt kein Deutsch

Ich habe diesen Thread gefunden, als ich nach Informationen für mein eigenes Projekt suchte, einen 1:1 Nachbau der Platine eines KIM-1. Hut ab vor Ralf und allen Mitgliedern dieser Community für dieses beeindruckende Projekt!

Die Hauptgrundlage für meinen eigenen Nachbau sind die hochauflösenden Fotos auf Hans Ottens Website, insbesondere die Rev. D. Ich verwende Kicad zusammen mit Inkscape, um die Fußabdrücke der Komponenten, Leiterbahnen, Logos und alles andere so genau wie möglich zu reproduzieren.

Die Aufgabe ist eine echte Qual. Es gibt ein ständiges Kommen und Gehen von Inkscape zu Kicad und umgekehrt. Bis auf die Befestigungslöcher ist alles an seinem Platz. Ich habe gerade damit begonnen, die Leiterbahnen zu legen, aber es gibt schon eine ziemlich gute Vorstellung davon, wie das Endergebnis aussehen könnte.

Wenn es Interesse an dem Projekt gibt, kann ich den Fortschritt hier teilen (wenn Ralf damit einverstanden ist) oder einen neuen Thread starten.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen,

Eduardo

Hallo Eduardo,

falls Englisch deine Sprache ist, kannst du auch gerne direkt Englisch schreiben.

Welche Version KIM-1 Version replizierst du?

Wie gehst du mit der quasi nicht Beschaffbarkeit der RRIOT Chips um?

Schöne Grüße

Stefan

PS: Bist du Eduardo Luis Arana (Aranet)?

Hi Ralf,

As I said, the basis is a Rev. D. I've made a custom footprint for each component, to try and match as much as possible with the original, including the solder mask. They will need some final adjustments, specially the one for the potentiometer, but in the current status allow me to do the routing. There is also something with the custom pads in them that I've yet to solve in Kicad, but we will come to that later

The tracks are real ones in Kicad, so I can check the circuit electrically with the schematic.

Zitat von Natas

Welche Version KIM-1 Version replizierst du?

Wie gehst du mit der quasi nicht Beschaffbarkeit der RRIOT Chips um?

Rev. D. Later revisions would be almost trivial, as the only changes I've seen are in the solder mask, display footprint and logos.

About the RRIOT, I will use a compact version of Ruud Baltissen's clone at first. Eventually, my goal is to come up with an fpga based replacement, but lets finish the PCB first

Zitat von Natas

PS: Bist du Eduardo Luis Arana (Aranet)

No, that's another (and much more skilled and wise) Eduardo

Greetings,

Eduardo

Hi,

Front layout completed!

DRC against schematic passes. I finally came up with a solution for footprints that have pads with different shapes on front and back layers. The trick is using an SMD pad for the front, another for the back and a THT pad joining both sides. All three must have the same pad number.

Cheers,

Eduardo

Zitat von eduardocasino

Hi,

Front layout completed!

DRC against schematic passes. I finally came up with a solution for footprints that have pads with different shapes on front and back layers. The trick is using an SMD pad for the front, another for the back and a THT pad joining both sides. All three must have the same pad number.

Cheers,

Eduardo

Alles anzeigen

Nice but I still would do a version with an SMD TSOP flash below the RRIOT to be able to use a RIOT

Zitat von eduardocasino

Hi,

Front layout completed!

DRC against schematic passes. I finally came up with a solution for footprints that have pads with different shapes on front and back layers. The trick is using an SMD pad for the front, another for the back and a THT pad joining both sides. All three must have the same pad number.

Cheers,

Eduardo

Alles anzeigen

That looks awesome!

Hi, first version finished!

Next steps:

• Get mounting holes in the right positions. If somebody with an original Kim-1 would be so kind of taking some measurements, I'll be very grateful.
• Work a bit more on the footprints and solder mask to be closer to the real thing.
• Send to fabricate and start building it!
• General cleanup and make everything available on GitHub
• Create footprints to generate also revisions E to G

I'm also working on FPGA replacements for the 6530-002 and 003, based on a VHDL core for the 6532 by Retromaster. My intention is to share it on GitHub when I have something that starts functioning.

Cheers,

Eduardo

Zitat von ralf02

I own a genuine KIM-1, Rev. F. What measurements do I need to take ? Have you already found a solution for the keyboard ? Here are some pictures of my KIM-1 board and keyboard, including a "scan" of the bottom, I had just put it on the scanner:

Hi Ralf,

Thanks for the pictures and the offer

It would be great to have the real size of the holes (I'm assuming standard M4 4.3mm for the bigger ones and M2.5 2.7mm for the smaller) and also the distances of each hole to the nearest long and short edges of the board. Something like this:

These holes do not seem to be present in most boards I've seen,. Possibly added by the first owner for some custom purpose?:

Regarding the keyboard, my first idea was to make a modern replacement for the board that could be fitted inside the original cover, but using microswitches, so it could also be used also for repairs. If that is not possible, I'll go for your replica.

Thanks a lot for the scans. What are the actual dimensions of the keypad board and the spacing between pads?

Cheers,

Eduardo

Zitat von eduardocasino

Zitat von ralf02

I own a genuine KIM-1, Rev. F. What measurements do I need to take ? Have you already found a solution for the keyboard ? Here are some pictures of my KIM-1 board and keyboard, including a "scan" of the bottom, I had just put it on the scanner:

Hi Ralf,

Thanks for the pictures and the offer

It would be great to have the real size of the holes (I'm assuming standard M4 4.3mm for the bigger ones and M2.5 2.7mm for the smaller) and also the distances of each hole to the nearest long and short edges of the board. Something like this:

These holes do not seem to be present in most boards I've seen,. Possibly added by the first owner for some custom purpose?:

Regarding the keyboard, my first idea was to make a modern replacement for the board that could be fitted inside the original cover, but using microswitches, so it could also be used also for repairs. If that is not possible, I'll go for your replica.

Thanks a lot for the scans. What are the actual dimensions of the keypad board and the spacing between pads?

Cheers,

Eduardo

Alles anzeigen

I would guess someone mounted a PSU at this place.

Zitat von ralf02

Alright, i took some measurements: All holes are 4.3mm in diameter except for two which are 2.5mm in diameter.

The 3 right holes have a distance to the right of 6.0mm (all distances measured from the edge of the hole).

Hole bottom left: 5.5mm to the left.

Hole top left: 5.0mm to the left.

The top two holes: 5.5mm up.

The two bottom holes: 5.5mm down.

Center right hole: 82mm down.

Bottom center hole: 75mm to the right and 16mm down.

Center hole: 75mm to the right and 97.5mm down.

The dimensions of the keypad board are 48,8 x 89,5mm (the keypad case has 74 x 51mm).

Alles anzeigen

That is perfect, thank you very much!

Hi, I've made everything public at my github repository, under the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International License. I hope you enjoy it

Zitat von eduardocasino

Hi, I've made everything public at my github repository, under the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International License. I hope you enjoy it

Awesome!

Link and description to your github repository will be added to my 'KIM-1 clone' page!

Zitat von Hans Otten

Zitat von eduardocasino

Hi, I've made everything public at my github repository, under the Creative Commons Attribution-NonCommercial 4.0 International License. I hope you enjoy it

Awesome!

Link and description to your github repository will be added to my 'KIM-1 clone' page!

It's nice to see people from all over the world finding together and sharing.

If this message just would reach politics, they seem to have different intentions.

I've just remembered that there is a mistake in the original KIM-1 schematic, the one included in the user manual, that has propagated to each and every one derived from it, since Ruud Baltissen's to ralf02 's

The values of resistors R18 to R23 and R41 to R46 are swapped. The former are pull-ups that should be 1K and the later are the base resistors, that should be 220R in early revisions or 100R from Rev. D and onwards.

On a side note, I've changed the license terms to my schematic and now it is CC BY 4.0, as it contains publicly available information and does not add any significant value. The "Non Commercial" restriction is now limited to the PCB.