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Mail from Trenz and which rom ?

  • Today I got an email from Trenz that they are still waiting for cardbox, but until end of April they think they got it and can then send the first 400 mega65!


    A question about the rom? Which one will be delivered with the mega? The latest one (the current is 327) or an older one?

    It‘s an older ROM.

    Number 28X, as far as I know.

  • A 280 version number? Seriously? There are almost 50 version numbers between that and the current one. Why include such an old rom? What is the easiest way to get the current rom? And which version number will be the final one for the mega65?

    Delivery was scheduled for December 2021. That's why there was a ROM feature freeze at that time and the manuals were printed to match the ROM. Then came the delay because of the missing packaging. The ROM development did not stop since then. Therefore the ROM matching the manual is included.

  • Regarding the mail from Trenz:

    On the discord there was some confusion because of how the stuff about cancellation was worded. It was not written by native English speakers and that resulted in a somewhat confusing wording.

    Therefore a little explanation here:


    The mail does not want to say "Trenz might cancel your order and refund you without further comment". It was meant to say "You can cancel your order if you wish to do so, and will get a full refund, no questions asked".

    But if you cancel your order, you will get removed from the queue, and therefore will be added at the back of the queue, if you later decide to re-order again.

  • It‘s an older ROM.

    Number 28X, as far as I know.

    A 280 version number? Seriously? There are almost 50 version numbers between that and the current one. Why include such an old rom? What is the easiest way to get the current rom? And which version number will be the final one for the mega65?

    If you own a Mega65, you get access to the Mega65.org file host.

    There you can download the latest ROM.


    On Discord there is a group called ‚closed-roms‘.

    There you can get information about latest ROM release.

    And you can follow discussions about new features and bug reports.

    Latest version is 920327 from 15th of March (scroll back to 15th of March)..

    At this point of time a new improved CIRCLE command is under development.


    Be sure there will be no final ROM.

    If bugs get reported, ROM developer will remove them.

    And also there will be new features from time to time.

    Development and improvement will not stop.

  • Be sure there will be no final ROM.

    If bugs get reported, ROM developer will remove them.

    And also there will be new features from time to time.

    Development and improvement will not stop.

    I hope you're just kidding here. I also ordered the mega because I don't want to keep always updating. The mega is supposed to be my "new c64". If there are constantly new rom versions, then you must also necessarily always update, so that everything runs. Otherwise you don't have new functions of the newest rom available.


    If that's true, I think that's a pretty stupid solution. ONE official rom that then also remains as it is, I would consider much more sensible to save the 8bit community the update orgies common these days.

  • The mega is supposed to be my "new c64". If there are constantly new rom versions, then you must also necessarily always update, so that everything runs. Otherwise you don't have new functions of the newest rom available.


    If that's true, I think that's a pretty stupid solution. ONE official rom that then also remains as it is, I would consider much more sensible to save the 8bit community the update orgies common these days.

    Those times are definitely over. Commodore had bugs in the C64 ROM back then, e.g. in String Garbage Collection (which led to programs not running properly under some circumstances) or the IEC bus (so that file access to floppy disk was very slow, only 400 Bytes/s). If they could have fixed these bugs, they would have. But machines were already sold, and updating ROMs was impossible at that time.


    This situation had advantages (all machines out there had the same ROM) and disadvantages (bugs didn't get fixed, no new functionality got implemented). But Commodore didn't choose it to be this way, they simply had no choice and accepted the situation as it is.


    IBM changed all this by not putting DOS in the ROM of their new PCs, but booting it from Disk.


    Of course, today we're in a completely different position. A fixed ROM is just one mouse click away and simply can be put on SD card. I think it's a good thing. From time to time, I will download an updated ROM for my M65, no big deal.


    Also, if you don't want to update, just don't do it.

  • Also, if you don't want to update, just don't do it.

    That's no so easy, because it's not a personal choice, which rom version a program uses.


    Error corrections are not the problem. It is more difficult when new features are added in rom. So example: If a program uses a command from the imaginary rom 350, then this does not work with a rom 320 that does not know this command. To make matters worse, it can also happen that a program for rom 320 does not work or no longer works correctly with 350 because something has changed.


    The whole leads finally to the fact that one must indicate for each program, with which rom version it functions. And this is exactly what I like about the c64: Everything runs that has been programmed for it. I also have version number chaos on the pc, I don't need a mega for that.

  • [CUT]

    I also have version number chaos on the pc, I don't need a mega for that.


    I really don't get it, why you have been so keen on ordering a MEGA65 in the first place - even as one of the first 400 it seems. You seem only to have a negative attitude towards everything with the MEGA65, so why on Earth do you want to give yourself this pain and buying this expensive piece of hardware? With your pre-perception attitude, you know already by now that this will end with a constant stream of negative posts about how bad everything is... so... why? What is your goal here? Why not keep your C64 on the table and get your MEGA65 money refunded?


    grubi mentioned this nicely - "Those times are definitely over". Yes, this is hopefully not a one-off product and I would expect that everyone buying this product for sure also want a platform that evolves and matures over the next few years. This is actually the whole catch here - that you get a newly developed hardware, that gives you the feeling of being old-school and can take the 8-bit experience/feeling to the next-level.


    Sorry, couldn't help myself and I will for sure not go in to a endless battle here, but I have always been in doubt why you are so interested in this project, if you feel so strongly against it.

  • I personally like updating firmware/ROMs, it makes me think that the product improves, I don't see this as a disadvantage and typically the effort to do this and compatibility issues are quite limited.


    On a different topic: there is an interesting You Tube video on the conversion of MiSTer cores to the MEGA65 - which I think (I know that there are also deviating opinions) is a great feature of the MEGA65: (99) MiSTer2MEGA65 Explained - YouTube

  • I personally like updating firmware/ROMs, it makes me think that the product improves, I don't see this as a disadvantage and typically the effort to do this and compatibility issues are quite limited.

    It depends a little bit on what you want to do. I had a similar experience with the ROM releases for the Commander X16, when I was porting my MOSpeed compiler to it....yes, I know...the X16 hasn't even been released yet, but anyway...the lesson still applies. To implement a BASIC compiler, you have to jump directly into the ROM, because you have to call the BASIC commands (and some other functions as well). If the ROM constantly changes, entry points shift around and labels change for no apparent reason, you are in trouble. That wouldn't be too hard, if the developers (in this case the X16 developers, I can't speak for the MEGA developers) would care about these things, but they didn't. I was close to cancel support for the X16 several times, because it was just too tedious to go through the sources again and again to find out, where everything was in the new release.


    So I think, that Sam231 has a point here. There should be a kind of "final" release of the ROM at some stage (it doesn't have to be now, but in the foreseeable future...). Or otherwise, I personally wouldn't bother to do anything with the machine that requires direct ROM calls. You can't compare the way in the which an old-style machine like the Mega65 works with the way in which a modern OS/API works. There are several layers of abstraction between the program and the OS on a modern device, which help compatibility. On a bare-metal machine like the Mega65, this isn't the case and that makes it really annoying if stuff changes with every new release. If you are just using BASIC, you don't care. If you are using the hardware directly, you don't care either. But if your code for one reason the another relies on ROM calls...then you learn to hate changes.

  • I can hardly bring myself to say it :D, but I see it here as Sam231 does.


    I had already written this some time ago and also had some pretty heated discussions about it, but I still maintain that it would be very good for the MEGA65 project if there would be a final and fixed, official ROM as soon as possible. And that also remains as it is, without "... yet another new feature".


    With the manual, it's just annoying at most when you think you've translated everything and then something else gets added :). But as EgonOlsen71 writes, with a ROM near software as for example the mentioned BASIC compiler, changes in the ROM are simply poison. If here entry addresses of commands change, then the compiler does not function with it any longer and must be adapted and reworked. And if one has then nevertheless another ROM version, then it does not work with him suddenly any more etc..


    I would recommend Sam231 my BASIC 65.EX ROM, which gets certainly nothing new more added, because simply no more memory is available for it :D. But I'm afraid that he does not even touch it with the pinch, it is not an official ROM. :whistling:

  • I would recommend Sam231 my BASIC 65.EX ROM, which gets certainly nothing new more added, because simply no more memory is available for it :D. But I'm afraid that he does not even touch it with the pinch, it is not an official ROM. :whistling:

    I had a bad debut here, I realize that now. Sorry that I approached you so, had a crappy phase at the time. Was not meant so harshly! Even if I prefer an official rom.


    I ordered the Mega because I want to experience something like a "second C64". Again the time as a teenager in front of the computer. And just because of that I don't understand why you can still find it good, when every week a new version of the ROM comes out? I thought that this only goes until the release of the MEGA65 and then the ROM is finished and stays like this.


    I have really little desire to read for each game or program first, with which ROM number it works. I would want to have THE mega ROM, with which then all software works. Just like with the C64. That this is probably not so, I only realized in the discussion here and am therefore a bit disappointed. But the mega65 is still good and I keep the order.

  • I had a bad debut here, I realize that now. Sorry that I approached you so, had a crappy phase at the time. Was not meant so harshly! Even if I prefer an official rom.

    Thank you! All good! :thumbup:


    Disagreements are always and everywhere (they are human nature), but as long as you can talk about it, it's all good! It would be boring if everyone thought and wanted the same thing. ;)


    We should just all be happy together that with the MEGA65, that is something that brings us joy. No matter how and in what form we want to use it. :)