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BASIC 65.EX - A BASIC with procedures and local variables

  • You are also free to build your own rom. Whether someone else uses it or wants to use it is another matter ;)

    Maybe you have a great idea that our "core team" can use for the official rom.


    And if you manage to build or modify your own ROM, then you are professional enough ;)


    After all, it's just a piece of code that can be loaded, deleted, changed like any other program.
    Or, of course, you can just ignore it.
    (No worries. you don't break anything with this piece of software.)

  • You can have fun programming smaller things that you can oversee. But things like a rom should only be done by professionals from the team. That's how I see it: The rom is the heart of the mega 65 and it has to work 100%. Nobody wants to pay 900 US$ for the mega and then use crippled roms that beginners have assembled 'for fun'. I think that hurts the project, because you might think the meg 65 is just a tinkering thing for almost 1000 US$.

    I think you overestimate the way the MEGA65 ROM is developed. :)

    Bit Shifter does an extremely excellent job, but there is no quality assurance in the sense that one expects from professional software nowadays. It works more like: If no bugs are reported, then "it fits". :D


    And here's the hard part: All, really all of the team, do this in their spare time on the side and not full-time. And probably the most shocking thing at the end: The complete MEGA65 project was created by people in their spare time.:schreck!:


    You will have to accept that with MEGA65 you are buying a leisure project. And a damn good project at that! :thumbup:


    I don't know what exactly your problem is with my ROM, but if you don't want to use it, then just leave it alone and that's it. :nixwiss:


    I checked with the team and they told me that you are not anyone from the team, nor do you speak for them. They see it more as "We support any kind of development and branching (deft)".


    I don't want to take away your personal opinion, but also in the sense of the team here I want to clarify that you only speak for yourself and not for the team. 8)

  • I must admit, please don‘t have too high hopes in getting the perfect C65 after more than 20 years of planning and implementation. Some features were skipped due to various reasons, either implementation had not even started, commands were redundant or deemed to be sacrificable in regard to the previous overloaded and incomplete ROM (e,g. commands like LOCATE being the same as CURSOR), and such. Other features were implemented to improve handling, or accuracy. You won‘t find an exact copy of an incomplete OS, approx. 200h away from from completion as the previous C= developer Dennis Jarvis said, but an evolution of development which had the chance to benefit froma much relaxed timeline to rethink and optimize implementations. In fact much more than 200 hours have been spent to create the astounding MEGA65.

  • I think you overestimate the way the MEGA65 ROM is developed. :)

    Bit Shifter does an extremely excellent job, but there is no quality assurance in the sense that one expects from professional software nowadays. It works more like: If no bugs are reported, then "it fits". :D

    That's pretty presumptuous to compare. The team is made up of professional programmers who know exactly what they're doing to make sure everything runs smoothly in the end. Amateur programmers can't judge that accurately. I still think that the rom should be done only by professionals from the team. Nothing is more annoying than a computer for 900 US$, which then constantly crashes because amateurs have tampered with the rom. I will definitely only use the rom from the team.

  • Sam231 I'm a bit sad to see discussions like this going on. I am a professional programmer myself, starting 6502 coding 43 years ago, long before even the C64 arrived. I worked in the UK as a professional Games programmer on C64, Amiga and Atari ST. I won prizes for my work, meeting Heinz Nixdorf and being rewarded by the Bundesforschungsminister. I wrote operating systems, designed CPUs, work myself with FPGAs. I studied computer science and electronics. I'm a supporter of the Mega65 project since 2014. I'm working as a professional coach for software development teams.


    From what I've seen on the forum, Snoopy is no less a professional than I am. His work is extremely valuable for the Mega65 community.


    As a professional, I see it this way: This is an open source project. It exists only because of an active community of people, who voluntarily spend their knowledge and their time on it. We need people like Snoopy, otherwise the project would be dead.


    Furthermore, the Mega65 is an open computing system. Anyone can freely write software for it, and freely release his work for the joy and benefit of other people. If this software is a productivity application, a game, a BASIC extension, an operating system or even VHDL/Verilog code for the Mega65's FPGA to completely change how the hardware operates does not matter. Anyone can pick from these contributions what he likes best. Or even better, contribute himself.

  • That's pretty presumptuous to compare. The team is made up of professional programmers who know exactly what they're doing to make sure everything runs smoothly in the end. Amateur programmers can't judge that accurately. I still think that the rom should be done only by professionals from the team. Nothing is more annoying than a computer for 900 US$, which then constantly crashes because amateurs have tampered with the rom. I will definitely only use the rom from the team.

    There no way to draw an exact line between "amateurs" or "professionals". Just because someone's aim is to get money for the work or do it for a living? This is a vary weak argument in believing for a good reputation of a programmer at. The results counts and what a developer had released so far ...
    To do it for profession does not remotely guarantee anything about software quality - the whole history of computer software development proves that.

    It's just an vague, maybe emotionally backed assumption that alternative ROMs harms the project. I think this comes from a deeply misinterpretation on how such project works.
    How many people to you think would provide such ROM that the community will get confused about such possibilities? That's not the PC market of millions where low-quality software swamps over and over.
    It's ridiculous, disrespectful and even hostile against Snoopy especially with all the other who had spoken for him and referring him as vary valuable community member.


    However, I think everybody here is letting you go away with your opinion. You stated it, we recognized it, but it will not convince all, even you repeat it over and over. There is no need to pursue a missionary way here. ;)

  • Sam231 :

    You wrote six posts in our forum and they all only deal with nothing but you telling the MEGA65-community that you don't trust in "non-official" ROMs.

    Everybody here got your message and there is no need to further point it out over and over again as you do here.

    Furthermore, people don't care. This should be pretty obvious by now.


    Enough about this now, okay? This is one last friendly request.

  • That's pretty presumptuous to compare. The team is made up of professional programmers who know exactly what they're doing to make sure everything runs smoothly in the end.

    This is where you're confused. There are no professional programmers on the MEGA65 team in the sense of "people being who are paid to write software for this project" that you seem to be implying. The "official" ROMs are also an "amateur" effort by BitShifter modifying the buggy and unfinished "professional" Commodore ROM source code. BitShifter wasn't hired to do that, he just started doing it, the team liked what he was doing, and his series of "amateur" modifications became recognized as the "official" ROM by the team which he's then spent over a year continuing to improve in his spare time.

    The entire MEGA65 is an "amateur" effort, with the exception of the physical design and manufacturing that they've hired outside companies to do. The case, keyboard, and circuit board are "professional" work by Hintsteiner, GMK, and Trenz but the FPGA core that makes the MEGA65 a MEGA65 is a completely "amateur" effort by Paul and various other contributors.

  • I noticed an error while trying out "Towers of Hanoi" at the weekend. Despite all maximum high quality tests :D there was an error in the argument transfer under unfavorable circumstances. ;(


    I have corrected the error and added the current ROM to the patch page (mentioned in first post). So from now on you will automatically get the new ROM (220214) if you download it from the patch page. :)


    The "Towers of Hanoi" now also work as they should (described in this page ) :




  • ah okay, but that could be a pretty handy feature, don't you think? i mean, it's unusual enough to have procedure names in quotes, but if that would mean you could use strings in order to simulate function pointers, that might be a good use of this syntax

  • ah okay, but that could be a pretty handy feature, don't you think? i mean, it's unusual enough to have procedure names in quotes, but if that would mean you could use strings in order to simulate function pointers, that might be a good use of this syntax

    You,re right. That would be a nice feature. :)


    The problem still is the lack of memory in the ROM. There are some more ideas in my head, but hardly enough space for insert them. ;(


    Maybe I should use a "rom doubler"? :D

  • I noticed an error while trying out "Towers of Hanoi" at the weekend. Despite all maximum high quality tests :D there was an error in the argument transfer under unfavorable circumstances.

    That's exactly the amateurish thing I mean. Before you release something like this, you should test it. And so thoroughly, that not after 3 days already an error appears, which needs an update. Definitly no pro!