Well, wouldn't recommend to use Xemu for C64 games 
As we discussed. I've even would not recommend MEGA65 for someone wants C64 stuff only ... At least not with the mega65-core, but then with a dedicated (future?) C64 core But it reminded me, again, that a VM like this can contain more generic stuff, even VICE, maybe it's needed some time as well. With developer etc stuffs I've already mentioned, compilers, assemblers, maybe a good text editor for development (if not a whole IDE for that purpose). And such ... So it can be then a MEGA65 specific VM material with some additional tools in the hope "that can be useful".
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Xemu as a bootable ISO image
- Snoopy
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Though I often found myself in the situation that I can learn something from things like this, what I can do better for that goal.
One "problem" with your emulator (or better say: with every emulator) is the needed ROM. As long as you aren't allowed to deliver it with the emulator, the user have to get it "from somethere" to can use the emulator.
And this "get it from somethere" is more or less "complicated" for a user who only wanted to take a very first look at the system which is emulated.
Your solution with the "make roms" is a very simple and elegant solution for this ROM problem. The only more easier way I can think is to bundle the ROM with the emulator.
True, but "make roms" for a beginner user is more complicated (huh, need to use command line ...) rather than saying download the ROM image with your browser at the given URL save it, and the open it with Xemu, from its GUI, when it can be done only by GUI stuff + mouse, no command line etc which scares people away who are not familiar with these (or even thinking that command line = DOS ---> it's a very old technique, anything command line is just lame, old computing nobody ever should use again, and GUI is the only way - I've met several people think that way, well, I wouldn't flame here of course, just mentioning, that most people - in my experience - would prefer even a more complex GUI way than a simple CLI way ...) surely I only say this, since in my experience (again) an average user's opinion is about this. But also true, that it's not a very wide statistical sampling done by me, just my general feeling more
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Hello,
Here is my suggestion for the ROMs:
1. On boot, check if the ROM file is present on any connected USB stick or FAT32 file system on a device it can found. If present, use it.
2. If not present, have a simple GUI app that offers to download it from Bo Zimmer's archive or archive.org etc, and offers to put a copy on (1) above, if found.
What would also be super, would be to include the cross-platform development tools on the ISO as well, so that it is a turn-key development environment, whether with the emulator and/or real hardware. IDeally it would support on-line update storing to USB sticks if required.
But already loving what you have done
LG
Paul.
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Snoopy not sure if you've already seen it, but you might want to update your included manual.
I've just seen the thread update for the MEGA65 manual from Thursday, that it has grown to an astonishing 737 pages...
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Here is my suggestion for the ROMs:
1. On boot, check if the ROM file is present on any connected USB stick or FAT32 file system on a device it can found. If present, use it.
2. If not present, have a simple GUI app that offers to download it from Bo Zimmer's archive or archive.org etc, and offers to put a copy on (1) above, if found.
Hi Paul,
after this answer from adtbm
we have discussed it in the team and we are certain, that there shouldn't be any problems with including the ROM, especially, since you
don't make money with it.
So from our point of view you can upload it.
it confuses me a little bit, why you suggest the use of such a "complicated" way for the ROM? I thought, I can put the ROM into to the ISO?
Besides that I want to use my latest patched ROM "AH". With the original ROM (911001.bin) there is only "half of the fun", because there are at least two issues with it:
- the free memory for BASIC 10 is only 49.149 bytes instead of 112.381 bytes with the patched one (see here for the discussion)
- with the original ROM you have the "disc change error" (as discussed in this thread) which could cause in worst case data loss because the change of attached disc images aren't recognized correctly.
My main idea is to make an "all included and most easiest" way for a very first look at the Mega65 with the Xemu emulator. For me it only makes sense if I put the (patched) ROM into the ISO. Otherwise I can see no real advantage over using a build Xemu binary from this site: github.lgb.hu/xemu
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By the way, I still found changing border color on disk access a bit strange. OK, I understand it was kind of a debug tool, but honestly I don't like it ...
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Snoopy not sure if you've already seen it, but you might want to update your included manual.
Thanks for the hint, I already used the latest manual from 18th July.
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By the way, I still found changing border color on disk access a bit strange. OK, I understand it was kind of a debug tool, but honestly I don't like it ...
I don't like it too and regarding the old commodore documents it was only because the led of the floppy disc still doesn't work as intended. In the final ROM the border changes should have been deleted again. I already deleted them in the patch ROMs.
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Hi Snoopy,
it confuses me a little bit, why you suggest the use of such a "complicated" way for the ROM? I thought, I can put the ROM into to the ISO?
Paul is always extra cautious and wants to protect you not only now but also for the future. (And he is absolutely right).
from legal point of view, you should be fine, but you never know. If the MEGA65 really would become a super success and be sold who-knows-how-many-times, the greed is always looking for chances to get money out of it.
That's why the confusion. from our point you're green to add the ROM, but we try to help to prevent, possible future bad events for our community and supporters.
Besides that I want to use my latest patched ROM "AH".
Yes please ! Your ROM is at the moment the best ROM for XEMU. (XEMU doesn't use a real floppy drive
)At the moment i am having on my SDcard the original 911001 and your patched "AH" version.
the ROM talk also reminded me, that i wanted to ask you, if we could have your permission to maybe include your patch_bin.exe tool in our m65connect tool ? It's a GUI tool for MAC/LINUX/WIN that eases the access and file handling with the MEGA65 via serial/jtag. The tool already has the possibility to send a ROM file of your choice to the MEGA65 and with your tool included we could then first patch a ROM and then send it to the MEGA65 for testing (The send ROM feature is only temporary until you power cycle the MEGA65. If you want to have the ROM permanent you still need to copy it to the SDcard (at leaset, atm... )) -
the ROM talk also reminded me, that i wanted to ask you, if we could have your permission to maybe include your patch_bin.exe tool in our m65connect tool ?
Thanks for asking, but the patch tools are not from me. I made only the changes in the ROM.
As described here, I only use them for creating the patch file and offer an possibility to create the patched ROM from it.
"bsdiff" with bspatch is within the most linux/ubuntu repositories and the Windows "BSPatch" tools I have from this site.
Paul is always extra cautious and wants to protect you not only now but also for the future. (And he is absolutely right).
from legal point of view, you should be fine, but you never know. If the MEGA65 really would become a super success and be sold who-knows-how-many-times, the greed is always looking for chances to get money out of it.
That's why the confusion. from our point you're green to add the ROM, but we try to help to prevent, possible future bad events for our community and supporters.
The "frustrating" thing on this is, that the original ROMs are only "one google search" away and noone cares about it for years now.
I had the hope that the deal with Cloanto allows a more clear situation with the C65 ROM. ...
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Maybe I should add an advisory: "You are only allowed to use this iso file if you own a real C65 prototype!"
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Here is my suggestion for the ROMs:
1. On boot, check if the ROM file is present on any connected USB stick or FAT32 file system on a device it can found. If present, use it.
2. If not present, have a simple GUI app that offers to download it from Bo Zimmer's archive or archive.org etc, and offers to put a copy on (1) above, if found.
I tought about the issues with the copyright of the ROM again and take your lines as a suggestion and will develop an alternative solution for the ISO file. I'll stay tuned ...
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Snoopy Will the ISO also have one installer?
That's the plan, but the main thing is the live system at the moment. To make it easier for me only a 64bit is planned so far. Even my very old "Samsung NC10 plus" netbook can handle 64bit systems and runs the Xemu ISO.
Maybe if I have someday too much sparetime, I'll also think about a 32bit ISO.
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The moment when you recognize that also the fourth build of the iso file (which takes nearly an hour each) is wrong, because you have now forgotten one damn backslash in one of script files ...
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